I don’t think I implied that at all.

(SDK/etc.)

I said we wanted to make the view dumb, which actually resulted in a tiny bit of coupling, which is less isolation

because now the presenter needs to know how to construct a bundle.

oh

in the line before saying they were dumb

the subject was isolation

so you are saying dumb views were less isolated

ok

Sorry, I was a little all over the place with that comment, it was more a stream of conscious thought than a well articulated declaration

I tend to do that.

haha me too

You’re right though, Isolation and Stupidity are not equal. For example, I will always isolate my data source through a repository interface. The business logic doesn’t care about where the data comes from, only that there is a set of functions that it can utilize. But the database definitely does have a bunch of querying logic, and perhaps data mapping logic (for example, utilizing the Repository pattern)

yeah I am pretty obsessed with isolation these days

so took particular interest in everyone’s opinions..

I think the consensus here is that it’s easy to overdo it. You should pick and choose your battles, and don’t mock the JVM. To like, simplify it.

yeah, but there are other reasons too for isolation

not just testing

Absolutely. You get a more modular, better organized system, if you do it right.

people mocked C++ for being a wrapper language

but there is something to be said

for making a language that makes it easy to adapt and isolate other interfaces

I think K does that really well

If you like to hear yet another opinion, here is mine. I don't like all his hype for MVVVV stuff these days, I prefer to write simpler (or better said: with one layer of abstraction less) code, extract and unit test logic if it's complex (e.g. data transformations coming from different sources) and test most of the code with UI tests. When view code gets too complicated to keep it in Activity, I do composition, but I don't change tests to test components. UI tests never break when I do that. If they do, refactoring introduced a bug.

@mg6maciej interesting.. where would be a good place for a longer thread? I have been skeptical of MVVM, but then on the other hand, there are some things about it that are very appealing. MVC is almost always a mess when things get more complex. PAC (alternative to MVC) was frankly an MVVM approach 30 years ago (that zero MVVM people bring up). The idea that components might have their own models, not a shared referent, makes obvious sense to me.

I think such things would be best explained with working code.

There is https://github.com/googlesamples/android-architecture, which I have yet to analyze.

cool had not seen this

But I'm likely to do that during next month and write my own version of the code.

sounds great