You hit it on the nail! The nature of the job itself is not less attractive to women, but rather, the environment we work with

But clearly you are making an assumption here or talking from your personal perspective, right?

@Ruckus GHC is an interesting experience - when I went 2016, there was an astounding 12,000 and I think attendance was 18,000 last year. Many powerful women and men allies

Interesting. I'll have to look into it.

I speak on both personal perspective and upon the countless perspectives of women and men with various backgrounds 🙂

I promise I will come back tonight with stories both on GHC and continued discourse on pipeline, if you wish

And on my views of the diversity community and why I don't stand with Lean-In

But I will leave the discussion for now with 1 story on the topic of gender dynamics and asking for raise:

Also, would there be a better place to hold such a discussion? While I agree it is a discussion that should be had, I think the TornadoFX channel on the Kotlin Language slack is not the best place, as it may drown out people here for TornadoFX related stuff.

Is there some sort of diversity channel already in place?

To my knowledge, no. We could do DM with specific people, but it would be nice to involve others that might want to read or participate in the discussion

If we can create that, I can place my quick anecdote on pay raise. What should we do?

you could set up a channel Amanda!

@poohbar do you think it would be okay to add a channel for kotlinlang here? It could be a private one

You may want to run it by the JBs to see if they think it's a good idea, but I think it is.

(who would that be?)

i mean they can always shut the channel down if they dont like it?

anyone with [JB] in the name

You could also just put a question of interest and appropriatness in the #general channel and see what the response is (and include in your question that you would like feedback from JetBrains personnel if possible)

Sounds good. Hey I'm sorry, I got pulled away by my CEO for something I'm working on. I'll have to do that the rest of the work day, but let's revisit this tonight and I'll get something set up.

I have been in this business since 1982 and then it was a completely male oriented business. I think have seen most of the changes and had most of the jobtitles that have been around

if over a span of 30 years, there is a decrease by 50% of women in a technical role

Seems fishy to me too. I think it would be more like over a span of 60 years and we would be including computing technicians who transfered programs to punch cards which is hardly a programming job.

I live in the netherlands and only now do you see more and more women in technical jobs (coders, architects) and not only in project leads and pmo

^That is true! It's amazing to see more women in technical roles. However, women are subject to be in assigned roles within their jobs that are geared towards soft-skilled jobs (i.e. scrum master, story creation, mentorship, organization, management). I'm going to look into creating a chat or channel but let's continue there give me a couple minutes to find a set up

While I appreciate your willingness to discuss such an important topic, I agree with @Ruckus that #tornadofx is not the best place for it -- this channel is already quite hard to follow due to the fact that nearly nobody uses threads so every visit here means skimming through 50+, 100+ messages etc, and also this channel definitely doesn't have proper coverage in terms of audience -- i.e. I'm not really into seeing numbers without any argumentation behind them, but there are plenty of people out there who is not interested in TornadoFX but can bring some valuable thoughts in. So I humbly suggest you to revisit the idea of moving this talk somewhere more appropriate (or at the very least start a thread to stop killing new messages counter). Thank you in advance.

@r4zzz4k I completely agree with you. I just reached out to the admin and I got a hold of one of them.

I wasn't aware one can setup a DM with multiple people in it 🤔

What is best way to unit test a tornadofx app? What are people using?

Depends on what do you want to test.

I want to test a tornadofx app