Very interesting & informative talk @amanda.hinchman-dominguez! Using machine learning to predict user interface tests sounds like a very daunting task, but so cool! Excited to see how your project evolves. 👍

@Shan Thanks! If anyone is interested, the repo is up on github and changes are currently sitting in the MVP branch - just converted the project to gradle and fixed the scope problem last night. Hoping to clean up the code a bit this week and also look into why kastree is not updated. May have to work with an older version of Kotlin for now 😞

Monkey patching... That's what I was doing about 10 yrs ago in Delphi 7 😃

SlideshowTest.kt, should this do something?

Hmm.. best practice for dynamically changing a css property? For example, updating prefHeight on window resize. 🤔

today's the day! 🤜 💥 🤛 . Today's the day I convince Intelli-J to build my tornadoFx hello-world! I blame you Amanda for all this motivation, great talk at Kotlin Conf 👍

wow, I think the whole javafx not being bundled any more is a bit of a pain point, but also when it's installed, my hello world (thanks to the tfx intellij plugin!) builds ok, but intelliJ is totally confused until I manually add the jfxrt.jar as a provided dep. It's enough to let me mess about though!

sweet!

I have avoided web development all my career and hacked through JavaScript and HTML only when I had to. I build internal business applications after all and used Swing, JavaFX, and TornadoFX. @mikehearn's rants also validated my unease with web development. I'm toying with creating a startup and I realize I can't rely solely on desktop apps for that. With Kotlin being multiplatform with JavaScript, Ktor in beta, and WebAssembly on the horizon, what's yall's experience with these stacks?

And where would you start given the current landscape of emerging front-end and back-end Kotlin technologies?

I think Kotlin looks promising on the backend. I coded some EJBs and RESTful web services. Logic, specifically rules, render well in Kotlin because of the shortened syntax.

I put out a tweet a year or two ago that was a fully-remoted Enterprise Java Bean in Kotlin. that was back when tweets were limited to 140 chars.

Fully-Remoted_Kotlin_EJB.kt

Wow that is amazing....

That was deployed to WildFly (RedHat's open source JBoss). With remoting, you do need a JAR file on the TornadoFX side. WildFly tunnels the remoting over HTTP/S which is great for firewalls. However, it's not RESTful because the tunneling is proprietary. (You CAN'T call the remoted EJB from ReactJS for example.)

@carlw I honestly think I'm okay with serializing via JSON for now, passing simple requests, and not doing anything crazy at first. But this is fascinating you can do this.

I think the remote ejbs have fallen out of favor, but you get some nice compile-time checks because the EJB-stripped business interfaces ("HW") in my example get shipped with the front-end

For server rendered I'd use Kotlin for the frontend, using Vaadin for example: https://vaadin.com/docs/v8/framework/getting-started/getting-started-kotlin.html I'm not buying Kotlin/JS for frontend yet though

how does remote EJB work? didn't that used to be corba?

tornadofx + JPro? 😉

I don't remember corba being used in any of the EJB projects I worked on. (I did code some Iona stuff once!) I think most implementations were proprietary, RMI-oriented protocols running over special ports (ex, EJB2 services on 4447 using RMI, EJB3 services on 4448 using RMI). With RedHat, they moved to standard ports and HTTP to deal with firewalls. However, there are differences between RedHat's remoting (services addressing, etc) and say a RESTful API (JSON over HTTP)

hm ok. didn't know EJB RPC was still in use

@hudsonb I definitely haven't dismissed TornadoFX + JPro especially since my customers would likely be business clients. I think what is reasonably going to happen is I'm going to create some services and have TornadoFX/Android frontends. From there if I'm successful, I can move to deploying to JPro when I have more than a couple of customers or hire a frontend engineer.

@mikehearn still a part of RedHat's bleeding edge product http://docs.wildfly.org/14/Client_Guide.html#Remoting_Client_Configuration

@hudsonb RE: kotlin front-end skepticism. Have you seen the JavaScript preprocessors like Babel?

I haven't. I was just checking out the Thinkter project though which is interesting: https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-fullstack-sample Fewer calls to

js(...)

and `script { unsafe {`than I was expecting.

Another random question, am I going to run into memory leaks in a

TableView

using the

onChange { }

to do conditional formatting of cells?

Untitled.kt

No problems if you comment out the column def?

@carlw what do you mean?