kotlinlang #webassembly

Hi, I've got a Kotlin/JVM program which I would like to port to wasm. What's wrong with the deprecated version? When's the new version coming out? Would I be better compiling to JS in the mean time? (Even if I go offline I'll be back online tomorrow)

Ananiya

12/04/2020, 11:07 AM

Hello 👋, I have few confusion here.:blob-nervous: 1. Is the new kotlin/wasm (not via llvm) tends to be the fastest of all even when compared to jvm or slow ? 2. Are any plans to add new build system which runs on wasm or use gradle? :blob-smile:

pabl0rg

12/19/2020, 12:06 PM

Hi, does anyone here know if something like Perceus (reference counting) would work in Kotlin for Wasm? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2020/11/perceus-tr-v1.pdf

Robert

03/04/2021, 1:08 PM

@bashor I saw your announcement (https://discuss.kotlinlang.org/t/state-of-webassembly-in-kotlin/18348); how are things coming along since then? Or if @udalov @Svyatoslav Kuzmich [JB] can better answer it, or someone else, also okay. Don’t know how to ask actually :-)

kailan

04/16/2021, 2:07 PM

Hey team, is there a roadmap for the new Kotlin/Wasm compiler backend, or is just a case of “it will be ready one day”?

kailan

04/16/2021, 5:10 PM

This question still stands if anyone is able to shed some light:

bashor

05/20/2021, 2:21 PM

Feel free to apply and please help us to spread the message 😉 https://twitter.com/bashorov/status/1395383088599998466

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kailan

05/20/2021, 2:48 PM

I’m not familiar with Kotlin’s development process…. will this new compiler backend be developed in the open or will it be private until finished?

Dmitry Romanov [JB]

06/23/2021, 9:16 AM

https://blog.scottlogic.com/2021/06/21/state-of-wasm.html

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sdeleuze

07/18/2021, 4:07 PM

It would be nice to mention Kotlin/Wasm in https://github.com/appcypher/awesome-wasm-langs#kotlin-top even if not yet properly released, just to raise awareness. https://webassembly.org/getting-started/developers-guide/ should probably be updated when the first release will be available as well.

ftomassetti

07/25/2021, 8:06 AM

Is there any plan to have the possibility to compile Kotlin code to wasm file using wasi which I can run with wasmtime and similar?

sdeleuze

07/25/2021, 8:02 PM

Any take on this from a Kotlin perspective ? https://twitter.com/assemblyscript/status/1419110937261449216?s=21

sdeleuze

07/28/2021, 7:05 AM

Interesting to see Dart starting to support Wasm as well https://medium.com/dartlang/experimenting-with-dart-and-wasm-ef7f1c065577

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ESchouten

08/12/2021, 7:45 PM

No idea if someone finds this interesting, however A big WASM PR got merged in master today - https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlin/pull/3859 Last month WASM Garbage collector milestone 3 PR got merged - https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlin/commit/a468792 I wonder if someone could get some demo project working (for shits and giggles, no high expectations) Perhaps based on an 8 month old Kotlin WASM project by @Svyatoslav Kuzmich [JB] https://github.com/skuzmich/kotlin-wasm-benchmarks

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Robert

08/31/2021, 10:17 PM

Is there any update on the current state? Any alpha release?

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Sam

09/10/2021, 3:32 PM

Is Kotlin’s WASM backend going to include a garbage collector or is the WASM GC spec finally moving?

Arslan Armanuly

09/24/2021, 7:44 PM

WASM backend when?😡

Svyatoslav Kuzmich [JB]

09/24/2021, 8:25 PM

Hi people! Would anyone like to share what applications you would be interested in developing using Kotlin/Wasm? My initial guess is that it could become a good fit for sharing domain logic using multi-platform and/or building client-heavy web apps. I would like to know what you think.

ESchouten

10/06/2021, 9:59 PM

The latest Kotlin 1.6.20 devbuilds contain wasm as multiplatform target! https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlin/blob/master/libraries/tools/kotlin-gradle-plug[…]src/test/resources/testProject/new-mpp-wasm-js/build.gradle.kts

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Big Chungus

10/21/2021, 2:54 PM

I was hoping to see some kjs kwasm interop

tunedal

10/21/2021, 4:40 PM

How much does the Wasm backend improve the size of the generated code compared to the JS IR backend?

Deactivated User

10/21/2021, 5:29 PM

Despite it was a bit short, really nice presentation. Congratulations 👏 Is it possible to try out the WASM compiler right now in an easy way? Like adding a maven repo, and specifying a Kotlin version? Would get feedback / bug reports at this time be useful, or it is in early stages?

sdeleuze

10/24/2021, 2:26 PM

Congrats for the presentation, I am wondering if you plan to provide interop with other WASM modules without JS being involved. For example, provide the ability to use WASI modules published on https://wapm.io/. I think of use cases like being able to use a crypto library developed in Rust and published via WASM interop (here WASI) and be able to use it from Kotlin/Wasm.

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napperley

12/12/2021, 4:43 AM

Lets say hypothetically Kotlin WASM gains the ability to port a Kotlin Native library (incl ones that provide a Kotlin binding to a C library) over to the platform. How would the porting process work? This hypothetical situation came about out of what was done with Rust and the LVGL ( https://lvgl.io/ ) library to port it to WASM ( https://forum.lvgl.io/t/rust-bindings-for-littlevgl/2386/12 ).

napperley

12/14/2021, 12:02 AM

I have some questions about WASM interop: 1. Will K/W eventually support having bi-directional WASM module interop ( https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/03/emscripting-a-c-library )? 2. Are WASM Interface Types separate from WASM modules? 3. With C libraries (eg LVGL: https://lvgl.io/ ) would WASM modules be the way to go with WASM interop for K/W? 4. What is next on the K/W roadmap for WASM interop? 5. Are there any future plans to provide a viable path for porting K/N libraries (that act as a Kotlin binding to a C library) to K/W?

napperley

12/14/2021, 2:11 AM

Will be very interesting to see what happens with LVGL since it might pave the way for how C libraries are ported to WASM: https://forum.lvgl.io/t/support-for-wasm-backend/7584

napperley

12/17/2021, 11:44 PM

Which WASM runtime(s) will K/W support?

Glen

12/22/2021, 7:14 PM

Hello here. Just found something interesting: Wasm modules being translated to C. Source: https://github.com/turbolent/w2c2

Title

Glen

12/22/2021, 7:14 PM

Hello here. Just found something interesting: Wasm modules being translated to C. Source: https://github.com/turbolent/w2c2

cc @napperley

napperley

12/22/2021, 10:08 PM

Unusual considering that developers normally do it the other way round.

What are the use cases for converting WASM modules to C?

Svyatoslav Kuzmich [JB]

12/22/2021, 11:26 PM

I guess it could be useful as a step of AOT compilation. C can be compiled to any target and has many mature optimising compilers.

Played around with it a little bit. It seems to skip memory sandboxing, OOB loads cause segfaults.

Arkady Bazhanov

12/23/2021, 9:16 AM

Firefox does this as a sandboxing technique: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2021/12/webassembly-and-back-again-fine-grained-sandboxing-in-firefox-95/

Rather than hoisting the code into a separate process, we instead compile it into WebAssembly and then compile that WebAssembly into native code. This doesn’t result in us shipping any .wasm files in Firefox, since the WebAssembly step is only an intermediate representation in our build process.

We accomplished this with wasm2c, which performs a straightforward translation of WebAssembly into equivalent C code, which we can then feed back into Clang along with the rest of the Firefox source code. This approach is very simple, and automatically enables a number of important features that we support for regular Firefox code: profile-guided optimization, inlining across sandbox boundaries, crash reporting, debugger support, source-code indexing, and likely other things that we have yet to appreciate.

napperley

12/24/2021, 12:53 AM

Essentially the C compiler is being used apply optimisations, provide debugging and other tool support, before the code is converted to WASM again. One wonders why the optimisations aren't being applied at the WASM level.

Svyatoslav Kuzmich [JB]

12/24/2021, 9:27 AM

I though C from tools like w2c2 is meant to be compiled to Native code. Converting code to Wasm multiple times in the build chain could accumulate the Wasm overhead. Do you know anyone doing this?

Arkady Bazhanov

12/24/2021, 11:21 AM

before the code is converted to WASM again

No, it’s not. It’s compiled to native code and shipped as part of Firefox. This is not about WASM support in Firefox, this is about Firefox team using WASM internally as an intermediate step to achieve sandboxing for different parts of the Firefox itself (like parsers and such), which interact with user data.

napperley

12/24/2021, 10:14 PM

Very odd considering that Firefox on Linux can be installed as a FlatPak or Snap package, which has a built-in sandbox (an isolated container). Other OS's may have a similar self contained packaging format.

Svyatoslav Kuzmich [JB]

12/24/2021, 11:13 PM

I think it is more about sandboxing subsystems within Firefox so that bug in one subsystem would not cause vulnerability in the other.

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