Is there a reason for Compose for Web (HTML) not b...
# compose-webj
Jakob K
04/14/2023, 10:17 AMIs there a reason for Compose for Web (HTML) not being openly advertised anywhere anymore?
Or has it just been missed during the rewrite of the readme and the landing page? (both do not link to it or mention it at all)
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darkmoon_uk
04/14/2023, 11:39 AMCompose HTML DOM has some solid use-cases, but doesn't share the same feature set, API's and development tools/process that would place it in the
K Compose Multiplatform family.
Android, iOS, Desktop and Web all render a Material UI to Canvas. HTML does not, and so it doesn't fall under that branding.
Expect it to still exist; just not here.
As for not being advertised at all, maybe that's even an intentional decision for a limited period, to help clarify the new CMP brand?
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spierce7
04/14/2023, 12:35 PMI think it serves as a point of confusion for a lot of people. Compose for Web isn't done and still has a lot of work. Compose HTML is more of an interop tool with the underlying web platform imo than a tool to build an app in.
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Jakob K
04/14/2023, 1:10 PMCompose HTML is separate from compose-multiplatform, but still extremely useful and adding a lot of extra value to the Compose compiler and runtime in general.
It not being discoverable at the moment is not the best decision in my opinion.
Maybe it should still be mentioned somewhere while making clear that it is not multiplatform.
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Renaud
04/14/2023, 2:55 PMI like this section in kobweb, it explains a lot and give an opiniated feedback
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 3:48 PMSomeone just asked the question at the closing keynote at KotlinConf
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 4:48 PMSomeone just asked the question at the closing keynote at KotlinConfWhat was the gist of the answer?
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 4:49 PMBasically what we expected: they thought it was too confusing. Someone on the panel said they want to spend more time polishing the DOM version, but I don't know if that's planned or just a wish.
CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 4:51 PMThe main effort is going towards the shared components via the canvas, but personally I think it's fine. The DOM version works well, sure it's bare-bones but there's everything we need to create libraries easily on top of it
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 4:51 PMSounds reasonable to me
David Herman
04/14/2023, 4:53 PMThe pulse I'm reading is that splitting HTML out from the multiplatform makes sense, but there's concern about the HTML libraries being buried a bit too much.
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 4:56 PMYeah, but I don't think they have the resources to make Compose HTML into a true complete web framework
CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 4:57 PMAnd well, you're well on the way to make it one :)
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 4:58 PMWhat did I sign up for.... 😅
David Herman
04/14/2023, 4:58 PMAh well, ain't no getting off of this train we're on
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 4:59 PMEspecially when you can see the interest
CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 4:59 PMThe community wants it, definitely
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 5:00 PMSeems so yeah! Perhaps the more they deemphasize Compose HTML the more that Kobweb will bubble up to the surface 😛
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Ryan Simon
04/14/2023, 5:22 PMYou're the new Compose HTML owner @David Herman is how I'm reading this, lol
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 5:22 PM😭
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 5:55 PMNext year, a talk on Kobweb? 😉
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 5:56 PMYeah, I'd love to!
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 5:56 PMI want to make one on either Decouple or Pedestal, too. Not sure if it will be next year though, I lack experience
CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 5:57 PMI'll definitely be attending though, I almost made it this year
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 5:58 PMA really great way to get experience is to commit to something and going for it!
David Herman
04/14/2023, 5:58 PMI'm so busy right now with Kobweb, I didn't even realize KotlinConf was already here. Hopefully will be more aware next time...!
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 5:59 PMYeah. I've been invited by an Android user group in Paris to talk about the project, and I know multiple people who organize a small conference in my home town next December, I'm planning on using those to get my name out there
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 5:59 PMGood idea
David Herman
04/14/2023, 6:00 PMI should look for some opportunities like that myself in the coming months
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 6:00 PMThankfully via this Slack I've spoken to a lot of speakers of such conferences, so hopefully I can get advice from them
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Ryan Simon
04/14/2023, 6:01 PMI spoke at Droidcon SF last year. Was my first big conference, and I'll say getting practice at smaller user group meetups was a great way to build up confidence
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 6:02 PMGood to know! I've done a lot of similar things at uni-scale events and I really loved them, I'm hoping to get to know this world better
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 6:02 PMThat's a great idea. I also did Toastmasters a couple of times (a while ago now). The first few times you get up in front of people are so hard.
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Ryan Simon
04/14/2023, 6:03 PMToastmasters is super helpful too
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farmerbb
04/14/2023, 7:51 PMI dunno if it's just me but I have this looming sense that Compose for Web (the new one) is destined to fail simply on the basis that it uses canvas instead of the DOM. Mostly because of the points outlined in the Kobweb readme shared earlier.
I feel like canvas works if you're wanting to port some actual application software to run in a web browser, but for websites... it just doesn't feel like the right tool. I think this will shy people away from using Compose instead of, for example, React or Vue.
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 7:57 PMWell, I'd think more about Flutter, which I guess is the market share JB is aiming at here.
David Herman
04/14/2023, 8:00 PMI could see codebases at startups embracing 100% Kotlin, especially with the allure of multiplatform. And once you're in that boat, being able to tell some business type person that you can write your Kotlin UI once to hit several different targets, then I think you have a compelling story.
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CLOVIS
04/14/2023, 8:23 PMThere's definitely a camp that wants Compose on the DOM. You can see it with Kobweb, Decouple and Redwood
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David Herman
04/14/2023, 10:24 PM@Oleksandr Karpovich [JB] just to check, despite the Compose HTML being de-emphasized, work will continue at least to keep updating compatibility for whenever the latest Compose version is released, right?
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MrPowerGamerBR
04/15/2023, 3:33 AMI also have concerns about if Compose HTML will still be maintained or not. It doesn't need new features since it already works pretty well, but it would be sad if it was deprecated, especially because it serves as a replacement for React on Kotlin/JS.
If Compose HTML will be deprecated in the future, then at this point I would rewrite all of my webapps to React or something else, since Compose for Web (with Canvas) is not a good fit for what I'm using it for, especially because you cannot use CfW currently without enabling feature flags in the browser, so you can't release an production app with it yet.
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Oleksandr Karpovich [JB]
04/15/2023, 6:13 AMjust to check, despite the Compose HTML being de-emphasized, work will continue at least to keep updating compatibility for whenever the latest Compose version is released, right?
Yes, the aim is to at least maintain the compatibility with new kotlin versions and new compose runtime versions. As Sebastian replied at the KotlinConf closing panel, Compose Html stays around. Furthermore, I personally would like to see it working with k/wasm. No actual plans for this now, but it's something to look at in the backlog.
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hfhbd
04/15/2023, 6:44 AMAny chance to add HTML back to the landing page? I really like it as a React/Angular alternative.
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Oleksandr Karpovich [JB]
04/15/2023, 6:51 AMYes. We'll add it back with a proper message to help people understand the difference between Compose for Web and Compose HTML library.
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Ekaterina Volodko [JB]
04/19/2023, 5:54 PMHi everyone. We’ve added Compose HTML to the main README page. Tutorials are still available but moved to the
htmltutorialsf
farmerbb
04/19/2023, 6:12 PMwonderful, thanks!
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