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This doesn’t belong into #C0BJ0GTE2, please remove.
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What belongs in feed @Stefan Oltmann?
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In the channel description.
Post links to interesting things about Kotlin. Discuss in the relevant channel, not here.
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This post is more suitable for #C09222272
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This is interesting to me and it is about Kotlin; in fact, it's a screenshot of Kotlin's own Gradle plugin. Is there a more appropriate channel to point this out?
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It's not exactly a meme or random, though, is it? There is a point to the post.
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Or #C19FD9681
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That I'll gladly do
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It's not exactly a meme or random, though, is it?
Yes, it is. Take a look around. People are posting articles, libraries, version announcements, video tutorials. You're the first one to post a "Guys, I'm sad" post with a single screenshot of a problem you're experiencing. It's a type of joke (I think) with passive-aggressive complaining of an issue that already exists. People will argue this fits #C09222272. I'd say this doesn't belong on this slack at all
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@LeoColman maybe you don't recognize the format, but it's a reference to a meme; it's generally applicable to Kotlin as JVM is the most predominant target Kotlin ships for, and it's timely because JDK 24 came out in stable today.
These reasons all tell me it's appropriate for #C0BJ0GTE2, even as news
But, you are welcome to disagree. That's what is great about arguing with equals!
The news is, you can't use JDK 24 with Kotlin and Gradle.
Good to cross-post in #C19FD9681 which is what I have now done
I am not actually sad or throwing up
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Reddit is probably the best place for your meme. Again, not this channel nor #C19FD9681
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Thanks but my meme has a point. The point is to cause this discussion, so I'd say it worked!
Are you a mod? If so please delete my post 🙏
If not, please realize that people communicate in different ways and it is not up to you to police me and what I feel is appropriate to post in this channel or that channel. I appreciate your point but disagree. I think Kotlin should support JDK 24 on the day it drops in stable. That's the point of the post.
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Posting it in #C0BJ0GTE2 has value -- education value -- because many probably don't know it isn't supported yet. Since it came out today.
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The point is that memes are not suitable for this channel. If possible, please remove your post. If not, well, feel free to be rude and lose potential connections.
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Memes can be vehicles for more important points. It is possible for me to remove my post, I just won't because I disagree and find it to be relevant.
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I don't find it rude to care enough about Kotlin that I give feedback. I understand why others might, though, and if you were personally offended by my comment, sorry! I don't see how though since it's about Gradle supporting Kotlin and isn't a personal attack on anyone.
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Your behavior is unacceptable. This is just trolling. Welcome to my block list.
> If not, please realize that people communicate in different ways and it is not up to you to police me and what I feel is appropriate to post in this channel or that channel. Nope, we need to police here - if mod or not. It’s important to keep the feed free from spam, so it keeps its value. There we have important library announcements and valuable articles. Post like yours should go into #C09222272 - or even better Reddit. TBH, with the behavior you have shown here I would prefer not to have you in this community at all.
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I'm not trolling. I'm simply defending my statement and I've complied with what people asked me to do, short of deleting my comment. Please stop following me around Slack @Stefan Oltmann. My comment will disappear simply by virtue of doing nothing.
It’s important to keep the feed free from spam
It's not spam.
Post like yours should go into #C09222272 - or even better Reddit.
Thank you for your opinion; please stop harassing me. You've made your point.
TBH, with the behavior you have shown here I would prefer not to have you in this community at all
Then, respectfully, I am glad it is not up to you. In my opinion I am happy you are here whether you agree with me or not.
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Sometimes it's good to accept that you're wrong and do what you are told. Not every single silly joke you make is worth defending so valiantly. You know this post absolutely doesn't belong in feed yourself too, I am sure of it. Do the right thing.
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It's not a joke. I wrote a full and complete question in the #C19FD9681 channel. Sure, I will reflect on this and perhaps change my behavior later, but it is a simple comment in Slack in a newsfeed. This isn't a "do the right thing" situation.
Doing the right thing is probably realizing that not everyone is happy all the time; the empathetic thing is to keep scrolling. You don't need to dogpile; the point was already made to me.
I legitimately am disappointed in Gradle and the Kotlin plugin for not supporting JDK 24. From some perspectives, posting a slight joke about that could be the more humane way to express it rather than anger. Sure, it didn't work as intended. It also isn't the end of the world. Just one post on a Slack group meant for discussion about Kotlin.
Meanwhile this is arguably harassment.
I've attacked nobody. I've merely responded, and each time, done so politely (even if disagreeing), and ultimately said everyone's opinion is welcome. I've tried to end the conversation each time, not prolong it or attack more.
I actually think deleting the comment (unless a mod asks me to) is also wrong, because people can read this discussion and form their own opinions. That can't happen if it's deleted. Nobody here is swearing or being totally inappropriate.
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The #C0BJ0GTE2 channel is simply not the right spot for any of this. And yes, the right thing is to delete the comment. The point was made to you but the post is still up, meaning you seem to not have gotten the point yet. That's the entire argument, I do not have any opinion on the topic at hand, and I would love to see a discussion about this in another channel.
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We are discussing it now in the #C19FD9681 channel. I appreciate your feedback
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I mean that genuinely
I don't think I will be bullied into deleting my comment. If someone with genuine authority asks me to, I will.
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This https://kotlinlang.slack.com/archives/C0BJ0GTE2/p1742133549741499?thread_ts=1742133549.741499&cid=C0BJ0GTE2 for example was a great post on feed. Got plenty of engagement and many people found it interesting and reacted accordingly. Do you see how this post is different from that one?
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I see how the posts are different and remain in disagreement. I'm aware of the point you are making
I am also making a point, are you aware of the point I am making? That not supporting JDK 24 through KGP means users cannot use the latest stable Java today, when it was released to stable?
That to me is an important problem. Perhaps even an urgent one.
A good way to start a discussion in the community is to do that via #C0BJ0GTE2. I understand you disagree. But hopefully likewise you can see my reasonable logic in deciding to post it here, originally, and then to defend myself, since I have personally attacked nobody.
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Sometimes in life, you can accept that you are wrong. You do not need to have some "authority" to tell you to do the right thing. And you don't have to take in every piece of feedback which you do not personally enjoy reading as bullying. I think by now you understand why this post shouldn't be here in the first place. Just do the right thing and delete it.
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I have accepted that I might be wrong several times, actually. Please just read my comments.
I am calling it bullying because you and others are telling me it is the only option and I do not believe that or feel it is true. You are insisting over and over again when I have already said I will not delete it on that basis.
Others -- not you -- are also following me around the Kotlin slack and thumbs-down reacting everything I write.
I am not continuing any argument or attacking anyone, so this behavior to me seems aggressive. I haven't done anything but defend my point in good faith and only in response to other comments.
Also, I appreciate the implied compliment about my other post
Sometimes in life, someone wants to make a strong point, and a way to do that is to start a discussion like this one, with a comment like the one I wrote.
That is not inherently aggressive so I don't understand calling me toxic, etc. I was of course trying to make a comment that would produce a laugh (under that context it was definitely a failure)
And that's alright. We move on and live to chat another day.
(Last point; forgive me. It also might spare some blushes if I deleted my own post. But I am happy for it to stand as an example of what not to do; or as an example of a user being frustrated with KGP. Either works and has value in my eyes.)
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If you think this is the most important hill to die on, then do so, that is okay. But you know you are wrong. And yes, I did like your other post, and I wish you continue to make more of those. I do not condone any such behavior of following you around in other posts of course, which is why you won't see me doing it. But two wrongs won't make a right here. The fact that some people are frustrated at you and act in some way does not change in any way the fact that this post still does not belong in this channel. And yes, posting something irrelevant to a channel and then not accepting that you've done so after many pleas may not be toxic per se, but it's absolutely not very kind engagement in a community you are in. This happens many times every day here, but when called out people typically just delete it, post it in the right channel, and move on with their days
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#C0BJ0GTE2, under my understanding, is for timely news; it is timely and it is news that KGP is incompatible with the latest stable version of Java. Somebody in this thread recommended I forward my message to #C19FD9681, where it is even more relevant. So I did.
I don't think it is a fatal error to start this discussion. Nobody is calling anyone names. I wish it was more topical, though. It is truly frustrating not to be able to use the latest JDK features with Kotlin, and JVM is the largest and most important platform Kotlin targets.
I actually don't think I am wrong; respectfully, I just disagree. Insisting that I "know" I am wrong is exactly the kind of bullying I would please ask you to stop.
I post here about once every six months, so it's not like I'm spamming either. I took the feedback and certainly would post differently in the future. Isn't that enough?
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Okay, I think you've made up your mind here. I don't think I can explain this to you in any clearer way and I've tried to be very careful not to be offensive in any way while trying to explain it all. Keep the post up if this is so incredibly important for you. I will now spare everyone notifications of getting more replies here. Have a great day, and in the future try to let go of some things, you don't have to defend everything so much.
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It is important to me, like I said. I also said I wouldn't delete it. I don't know why this is surprising.
The discussion is proceeding productively in the #C19FD9681 channel, and this message will soon naturally be drowned out by other valid news.
Thanks, and I hope you have a good day too.
and in the future try to let go of some things
Perhaps ask yourself why you are insisting I delete it? We are in a nested thread. Nobody is being bothered unless they choose to be
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Yes as I said, I let go, I said right above you should keep it up. You've exhausted at least 3 people's will to discuss with you. Everyone else has let go by now.
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I have simply repeated my position over and over because you keep challenging it. It hasn't changed.
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Isn't it very very clearly visible in #C19FD9681, that the productive discussion you're so proud of DOES NOT happen in a thread about your "sobbing and crying" screenshot with let out frustration BUT in a thread following up on a genuine question about that matter?
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Yes, that much is clear, and truthfully I am embarrassed. I don't even know why it is such a big deal.
Has the point not been made to me? I've already said I will not do it again. I think it would be dishonest to delete it, which I've said. It makes me feel uncomfortable.
So, if you guys want to keep going, feel free. I am responding to show I am not actually aggressive and was, in fact, trying to make a point. Elsewhere the discussion is continuing. I think it would also be rude not to respond.
Do you guys really want me to delete it that badly? Even given the value it may have? Fine, if you feel that strongly, I'll delete it.
I don't know how to be more agreeable than that.
Nice. So this thread isn't deleted but the original post with the context is. Fantastic
For the record, just in case people think I posted something evil
Can you just stop @Stefan Oltmann? I've deleted the post.
I just don't understand this. It's literally been hours. I have apologized several times. Guys, cheers, but this is no longer productive.
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I've deleted the post.
Thanks.
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Stefan, this is now over. The post was deleted. What you are doing is very unkind. Just stop.
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You're right, I'm out.
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