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<https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/> They only men...
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w
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ They only mention Kotlin on android and iOS and say its only for 1 platform.... Totally sleeping on backend kotlin. IME it is becoming more and more common to meet people doing back end kotlin. I think maybe tiobe is not properly detecting JVM backend work using a hybrid of java/kotlin
kodee sad 10
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o
Their methodology is useless beyond repair. All it can tell is the number of search queries on certain websites about „programming“. For whatever reason.
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g
Tiobe is so useless that I still don't understand how is it even relevant to get an attention
Fight of Fortran and Delphi for top 10 is everything what you need to know about it
j
I see this being shared a lot. Even I am sharing this. The Tiobe index, is, apparently, based on the number of searches people make. Kotlin, unfortunately, although being very much hip and happening, isn't searched a lot apparently and that comes, in my own opinion because of Spring and Java. While the disparities between Kotlin and Java were huge in 2016, Java, as a language, has also reacted to that, speeding up project Loom and adding new features on every single new version. This means that people who enjoy Spring and don't like the use-site target rules to apply annotations, also find that Java now provides some or all of the "missing features". Is the Tiobe Index a bit skewed? Perhaps, I'm not sure, but I do see a pattern in the graphs of my YouTube channel. Indeed, it appears that Kotlin is less searched than Java according to my humble data. I really enjoy Kotlin, but I think we also need to pay attention to what searches say and if people are still massively looking for Java, and Spring, then that should tell us that something has to explain that. It does not mean that people use less Kotlin, it only means that they search it less and that doesn't have to be a negative thing. It could also be that Kotlin is so easy to understand, that people don't feel the need to search massively about it.
g
I think it's not a bit skewed, it's totally broken
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o
It could also be that Kotlin is so easy to understand, that people don't feel the need to search massively about it.
That's one point. If you want your language to be searched more, deprecate a popular part of it and create a complicated replacement. Or have a popular movie mention it, so that people will search it though they'll never be using it. The TIOBE methodology is so flawed in the first place because there is no meaningful question it is designed to answer. They just took easily accessible data and interpret it in whatever way they like without establishing any causality.
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c
Kotlin, unfortunately, although being very much hip and happening, isn't searched a lot apparently and that comes, in my own opinion because of Spring and Java.
It's also a lot because this Slack doesn't count as search. Other platforms are based on StackOverflow etc, but the Kotlin ecosystem is mainly hosted in sites that don't count as searches. Also, TIOBE overestimates languages that are hard to read by a lot (because you google search more).
w
I also suspect searches for spring stuff dont include the term kotlin, and maybe those searches are just assumed to be java?
s
Possibly. Ultimately, though, TIOBE and companies like it have no real incentive to accurately represent industry trends (and no real mechanism for accountability—engineers aren't the target demo here, and as long as the index keeps getting product manager eyeballs on their saas product, it'll keep operating unchanged)
l
a
TIOBE is pretty useless, however, it does have an effect on the common perception. People don't can how accurate it is, they just think it's the truthful benchmark. I like how RedMonk does it by correlating StackOverflow questions to GitHub repositories - this makes much more sense than TIOBE. However, with the AI hype, even this index is under a question now as StackOverflow is getting use 🤷 https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2024/09/12/language-rankings-6-24/
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