Should we rename <#C19FD9681|> to #kotlin-gradle-p...

# meta

[mbonnin]

Should we rename #C19FD9681 to #kotlin-gradle-plugin (see this thread)?
#C19FD9681 has a big disclaimer to redirect general Gradle questions to the Gradle community slack. This leaves #C19FD9681 for Kotlin-specific questions. Feels like Kotlin DSL questions could also be asked in the Gradle community slack (there is a #kotlin-dsl channel there). The rest of the questions are mostly KGP related. Or is there anything else that wouldn't match #kotlin-gradle-plugin?

[Vampire]

But you also should think the other way around.
What would be the reason to not allow a Kotlin DSL question on the Kotlin Slack, as it is about using Kotlin.

Not saying that I object to the rename, just a train of thought.

[mbonnin]

Agreed, that's the main question I have.

[mbonnin]

The way I see it, the Kotlin DSL design is mostly driven by the Gradle team, so having the discussions there would help them get more signal.

[mbonnin]

While KGP is developped by JetBrains

[mbonnin]

But I'd be fine with both #kotlin-gradle-plugin and #kotlin-gradle-dsl

[mbonnin]

(even if I prefer just #kotlin-gradle-plugin with a topic that redirects to the Gradle community for everything not KGP)

[Zac Sweers]

Gradle has their own community slack with a #kotlin-dsl channel. Seems appropriate that people go there

[gildor]

kotlin-gradle-plugin is fine imo

My primary concern is that many people would ask "where is the gradle channel", but probably it's fine.

It looks like there are no real concerns. Let's get reactions today and we can ask admins to rename
So general questions go to Gradle Slack, same as with kotlin-dsl, and this channel stays primary about Kotlin Gradle Plugin and configuring Kotlin projects (which is anyway quite a large portion of discussions in #C19FD9681)

[Adam S]

I'd prefer keeping it as #C19FD9681

What is the problem with keeping it more general?

[Adam S]

For better or worse, Gradle is tightly coupled with Kotlin development. Gradle can be extraordinarily difficult. I think it's extremely important to provide as much help as possible should someone have problems. Being defensive about asking in the correct way seems really unimportant to me.

The Kotlin docs sites already have docs about general Gradle (non-KGP specific). Even though technically they should be on the Gradle site, it's important to have trusted and easy to access docs for learning. I think the Kotlin Slack should be the same.

The official Gradle Slack is worse than this Slack. E.g. because it's on the free plan history is limited. (I know about the linen.dev site - but that's not easy to find for beginners, nor indexed on Google.) The Gradle Slack also much less activity and fewer members, meaning less help.

#C19FD9681 has a big disclaimer to redirect general Gradle questions to the Gradle community slack.

iirc this was set by someone years ago after the channel was made. I didn't see any discussion, and there was never a community or moderator push towards it. Using it as a reason now doesn't sit right with me.

[mbonnin]

@Adam S has a point. I was initially in the same team actually. Be open to any Gradle question and use #C19FD9681 as a place for the Kotlin community to gather and discuss all the Gradle things. It's just not how it's been used lately and also not what the topic says.

[mbonnin]

I'm fine either way, but the current status quo is a bit weird

[mbonnin]

Maybe having #kotlin-gradle-plugin and #gradle-misc (or something else) would help?

[Adam S]

btw the discussion about the rules of discussion for #C19FD9681 always remind me of this sketch, so I will finally share it

"No! Don't answer that! Her question's got nothing to do with gardens Gradle!"

That Mitchell And Webb Sound - S05 - E03.mp3

[mbonnin]

We're not dealing with hypotheticals 😂

[mbonnin]

Proposal to update the topic of #C19FD9681 with "all questions should end up with in a Gradle" 🙃

[mbonnin]

(and make the status quo even weirder 😁 )

[Adam S]

ah, found it, the topic was set here, and then they never posted on this Slack again

[Adam S]

but the current status quo is a bit weird

I would like to hear more about what problems would be solved by restricting the questions to be specifically about KGP.

Skimming back through the recent history, I see some really interesting discussions and questions that aren't specifically about KGP. (Picking one at random as an example: thread)

And what about posts from Gradle about Gradle updates? Strictly speaking these shouldn't be allowed, right?

I think it'd be a shame if such threads weren't allowed.

[mbonnin]

Curious to hear what others think too.

[Vampire]

remind me of this sketch, so I will finally share it

Nice one, and really fitting.
I used to answer general Gradle questions but was called off not to do it, as it does not fit the Slack topic and also not the Channel topic.

Btw. what about #C0B8M7BUY then? It's topic also says that only Kotlin-related questions are allowed. :-)

[Vampire]

And btw.

ah, found it, the topic was set here, and then they never posted on this Slack again

is plainly wrong, that was just one of many re-set which easily happens even if you don't change anything.

The first time that note was added was in 2020 by @no

[Vampire]

And

nor indexed on Google.

That is most probably a bug somewhere though.
It was one of the major points for the Linen mirror to have it Google-indexed.

The Gradle Slack also much less activity and fewer members, meaning less help.

That's also plainly wrong.
In #community-support in the Gradle Slack you have 8,735 members, in #C19FD9681 here you have only 6,696 members. How many are in the Slack per-se is irrelevant, because people not in the channel will not read the questions and thus also are not available to answer. And activity in the Gradle channels also is much higher than in the #C19FD9681 channel here.