Bonjour. After years of backend with Kotlin I may ...

# spring

[jmfayard]

Bonjour. After years of backend with Kotlin I may go back to Java - which I don’t mind - but the company has unfortunately a dumb process where you need to write Java / Spring code in a browser without code completion or quick fixes or documentation or stackoverflow.

Do you have a good & simple Java/Spring project I can use to refresh my Java skills?
(like putting the type first 🙂 )

[jmfayard]

If you wonder who doesn’t understand what a dev does to force you to write java/kotlin code in the browser, that’s the people selling this “solution”
https://www.testdome.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPQQg4yZqt8&t=1s▾

[czuckie]

they should be burnt at the stake, then brought back to life, then burnt again. Imagine asking a builder to build you a little house without access to any of his tools. I'd love to ace an interview like that just so I could tell them to shove it for stupid hiring practices.

[jmfayard]

I find this slide amazing

The many companies that buy this shit doesn’t understand that
• googling and stockoverflowing is not cheating, it’s what we do
• working with other devs is not cheating, it’s what we do
• making pause and thinking is important, being stuck behind a computer screen doesn’t add value to the world
• micro-management is bad
• asking for help is good

[Davio]

This may not be a channel for career advice, but leave, your mental health is not worth it 🫢

[Thomas]

Maybe you can have a look at Bootify.io and switch between Java&Kotlin for comparison

[jmfayard]

We should talk more about careers and mental health, no matter what the channel is
Thanks @Davio @Thomas @Emil Kantis

[Алексей Ликутов]

It's not my business, but I think, you should leave such job (this is a joke)

[jmfayard]

it’s good advice, don’t be afraid to say it’s not your business

no in fact I’m going to pass the test
and then I’m going to ask why they think the test is meaningful in the first place?

reason is that there are fundamentally bad companies and then there are good companies with bad hiring practices
how do we know the differencer?
the later will be have the courage to listen and improve their recruiting practices

[kqr]

also avoid this https://www.testgorilla.com/, same shit last time I had to cross this

[jmfayard]

awesome thanks!

[Emil Kantis]

IMO it should be enough to point at your work with refreshVersions to show your skills @jmfayard 🙂

[jmfayard]

@Emil Kantis it should be but we don’t live in a fair wolrd.
When someone talk about meritocracy, I always remember that Mozart died miserable and alone

[Etienne Savard]

I did that sort of test once, and failed! 😄 And never again.

Ask me in interview, have me demonstrate my problem solving skills on a whiteboard, discuss about technology / architecture trade-off in front of my peers. No problem. I will ace it. Because that's what a senior software developer do. Not coding a b-tree in a web browser just because an HR company thinks that how you spot rockstar developers (I hate that label)!

So, my advice, if you have 10 years + of experience, and the company you are applying to ask to see your university diploma or your last report card, and schedule you for an online programming challenge in a browser: just run. Same goes of the work description: "like to work under pressure with tight schedules"... For God sake, who wants to work for someone with bad project management skills, and take all the pressure? Lol.

There's planty of other great places to work for. Be picky.

[Davio]

To me, being a senior developer is not about being able to solve a complex algorithmic task in 1 minute, it is the ability to solve a wide variety of tasks within a reasonable period of time in a way that is scalable, performant, maintainable etc. For that, real world experience is the only true measurement, say you had an architectural challenge at your previous project and your team solved it because you proposed and (toghether) solved it by doing X

[jmfayard]

I completely agree