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Hamza

06/10/2018, 2:55 AM
i’ve been trying to get into web applications, but ihave found no luck. everything has such a high learning curve What do you guys recomend?
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 2:56 AM
are you trying to do some full-stack development? or are you asking about server-side specifically?
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 2:58 AM
sorry 😅 what’s the difference?
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 2:59 AM
full stack would include, like. the front and the back end. server-side is the back end.
not that it’s necessarily such a clear-cut dichotomy, but I figure that’s concise enough for a beginner
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:00 AM
so spring would be full stack, right? I want like a simpler version spring, where i can simply connect frontend and backend together.
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:01 AM
what do you envision that to look like?
what is “simply [connecting] frontend and backend”
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:03 AM
hmm, im not too sure. having relatively simple ways to create html, or template it, and work with posts/gets? If you understand
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:03 AM
I mean at the core you need a web server to serve rendered templates and run business logic
many of the simpler server solutions can do that, and the ones that can’t can usually be wired up with a template processor
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:04 AM
i guess. what’s a good starting point for fullstack?
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:05 AM
depends, do you mean like in a practical sense or in a more academic sense? there are probably some books and plenty of screencasts if you’re into that
otherwise, you can learn spring if you want, or run Spring Boot, Ktor, Javalin, etc to get the backend up and running learn the frontend stuff from there
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:10 AM
any good documentation for javalin?
the website is ok, but it isn’t too in depth, i still find it difficult to understand what is fully going on
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:11 AM
if you’re really at the outset of building web applications, then Javalin probably isn’t what you want
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:11 AM
oh, okay.
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:11 AM
it’s great for folks who want to hammer out some endpoints and have a decent idea of how they wanna wire things together
Ktor is in a similar state
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:12 AM
okay, so my first idea was to make a little repository type of system where i can document all the books in my library
so that is my first goal, and im not sure how to start
i want it so it has a nice enough ui for others to be able to use as well, and easy enough for me to add/remove items from
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:12 AM
honestly I might even recommend a different language to start out with to get the basics
Java web frameworks tend to be too enterprise, and the Kotlin stuff tends to be too new to cater to newbies
conversely, there are countless tutorials for getting up and running with Python and Flask, for example
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:16 AM
hmm, i really, really wanna use kotlin ;/
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:18 AM
you can probably follow along with a Java tutorial if you know Kotlin well enough, but ultimately I don’t think I could really recommend the language for someone literally just starting out
what you want to do is pretty common and is called a CRUD app - Create Read Update Delete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Create,_read,_update_and_delete
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:18 AM
alright. thanks
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:19 AM
and there plenty of tutorials to build those
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:21 AM
what about good docs for learning spring with kotlin? I only saw one blog post relating to spring with proper kotlin related things
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:22 AM
there’s probably not too many articles about spring+kotlin since it works largely the same as spring+java
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:22 AM
oh, okay
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:22 AM
the framework doesn’t really take advantage of any kotlin-specific features, though there are plugins and adapters to do so
these are generally intended for people who are separately familiar with spring and kotlin
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 3:22 AM
i seee
thanks for your input, shawn!
👍 1
god i give up. im so confused where to start. can you lead me to anything? Thanks
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Shawn

06/10/2018, 3:56 AM
this looks like a pretty comprehensive guide: https://spring.io/guides/tutorials/spring-boot-kotlin/
it’s maybe a bit overkill, but you’ll likely gain quite a bit of needed perspective regardless
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 4:09 AM
ok, thansk
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 6:54 AM
this is exactly why I'm making javalin: https://javalin.io
👍 1
i'd be happy to help you get started making an app
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 6:57 AM
wonderful! I’ll take a look. Thanks
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:02 AM
having read the whole thread now, i see you already found it 🙂
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:02 AM
yeah
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:02 AM
if you let me know which parts you don't understand i can improve the website
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:03 AM
well it gives u tutorials on making apps
but it doesn’t really explain what is happening
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:04 AM
like how http works?
the html-form tutorial includes some theory on when to use GET vs POST: https://javalin.io/tutorials/html-forms-example-kotlin
it's for creating reservations, but that can be easily translated into adding books
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:08 AM
okay
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:09 AM
are you new to programming in general, or just new to web ?
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:09 AM
web
i have a basic knowledge of kotlin and java, but none in any enterprise
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:11 AM
alright, that can be a challenge
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:12 AM
i really do find it hard how did you learn?
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:13 AM
a master's degree and four years of work experience in a telecom 😅
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:13 AM
that definitely makes it easier…
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:13 AM
takes a long time though 🙂
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:13 AM
so you know what i know (nothing). i’m commited to use javalin to make my book repository thing. where should i start?
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:14 AM
if you can find a free "bootcamp" course on youtube they can be very effective
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:14 AM
hmm, i prefer docs and the such, videos are not the type for me
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:14 AM
do you know how to setup a maven/gradle project in intellij?
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:15 AM
yeah! I do
i’ve used tornadofx quite a bit
i’ve gotten quite good at it, i’d say
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:15 AM
then i would start with cloning the HTML form repository and looking at how it works
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Hamza

06/10/2018, 7:15 AM
okay!
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tipsy

06/10/2018, 7:17 AM
i'll be working on javalin for the next hours, so feel free to message me to ask questions