In the light of what this channel's discussions mo...

# spring

[mickeelm]

In the light of what this channel's discussions mostly been about the last few days (what should be discussed here and what shouyld not), what do you think of changing to a topic that makes it a bit more clear? Suggestion:

"Discussions on Kotlin specific integration with Spring, not Spring in general. For Spring-generic questions, try Gitter: https://gitter.im/spring-projects/. Spring Boot Kotlin guides: https://spring.io/guides/tutorials/spring-boot-kotlin/"

[mickeelm]

I see one thumbs up - I act! Feel free to edit further...

[nfrankel]

i’m all in favor
but i’m afraid nothing will change
people are lazy by nature
(that includes me 😄)
and they will throw in their questions regardless
but it doesn’t hurt to try

[thanksforallthefish]

honestly I am not sure I really care. I don’t mind helping with general spring questions, and drawing the line is thin.

up to a couple of days ago I was in android chat, and no question ever gets an answer there because they are all considered not kotlin

[nfrankel]

i found the “not kotlin” emoticon used on the #android slack quite helpful

[thanksforallthefish]

exactly the opposite for me, and I left the android channel for that reason 😄

[mickeelm]

@thanksforallthefish while I somehow agree/at least understand your point, it's actually pretty clear in the guidelines: "Please remember this is a Slack team for Kotlin. If you have generic questions that are about a technology (which may or may not be used with Kotlin), maybe it’s better to use another forum, such as StackOverflow."

https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlin-web-site/blob/master/pages/community/slackccugl.md

[mickeelm]

And I was "on your team" at first, but I switched towards this "view" because I think it helps to keep the channels "clean" and to the point.

[mickeelm]

But don't leave us! 😄

[christophsturm]

I think to some extent also questions in the category “hey we all XXX (spring/android/etc) all the time so what do you think about this (not really kotlin) topic.” should be ok. as long as the signal to noise ratio stays ok

[thanksforallthefish]

yes I know, but if that is the point then no question should be answered unless it is a problem with kotlin-techx integration. and slack would become a pre-bug reporting system.

I don’t like slack because it is not googleable, but if it is not helpful to me either it just creates noise in the background. I like to help developing kotlin and bringing it further, but I can do that with yourtrack.

other less popular channels, mockk, kotest don’t have problems answering generic question, like how do I mock a companion object? that is clearly specific to kotlin, but it is a specific question on mockk

[Fleshgrinder]

People who feel closer to the Kotlin community than to the Spring community will want to ask questions here. I think that's natural, and there's nothing wrong with that. If nobody can help, then we can still forward them somewhere else where they might get an answer.

[thanksforallthefish]

I think people tend to ask on slack/gitter because the expectation is to get an answer almost immediately. maybe a policy to not answer in the first 24h would help, so to encourage people to ask of more widely available platform, like SOF 😛

don’t know, it is a hard topic quite frankly, in my experience in the last couple of years I did mostly kotlin with spring and I think I had one problem which was really related to the tech stack and turned out to be a bug in spring data. not sure, I will adapt anyway 🤷

[Fleshgrinder]

Hehehe, totally with you on the second paragraph, also never had any Kotlin specific issue with Spring.

[mickeelm]

So the gist of it all is to archive this channel :D I think "keeping the signal to noise-ratio ok" is a good pointer here. And as for the more general guidelines (the code of conduct), I think that it's maybe better to lift this in #meta if one feels that the "Kotlin-specific-rule" is too narrow. Because all the topic I wrote does really, is to remind of that section in the code of conduct/guidelines (so we kinda all agreed on it already, when joining this Slack 🙂)

[Fleshgrinder]

I fail to see the problem. It's a community, where people talk and support each other. What connects them is Kotlin, but what they discuss, well, who cares, as long as the people are happy and respectful. In the #gradle channel we're also discussing everything. In #uuid we also talk about fixing OpenJDK (and their disinterest in doing so).

[kqr]

I see it as big problem, because it's just garbage I am not expecting to read it here and be distracted. I really don't understand why should we discuss your issues with intellij, or which DB should I use, or why is this API returning 403. It's absolute offtopic and rude to other users. What I would expect to see in this channel is kotlin specific stuff, like discuss problems with using couroutins, how to leverage dsls, why some kotlin constructs don't play nicely with spring. if there is specific channel for some kotlin only lib/framework I think it's ok to discuss its usage/issues. and if that it is not respected in other channels doesn't mean it is ok. and you can always go to #random

[Mike]

Rename channel? Spring-with-kotlin. People don't read topics...

The name is redundant, yet may help focus the questions, or give people a hint that there should be some Kotlin content in their posts?

[nfrankel]

People don’t read topics..

some (most?) people don’t read much tbh
they just throw in their question and expect an answer
and some are not afraid to throw it in different channels “just to be sure”
😬

[nfrankel]

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