<https://medium.com/@elizarov/why-im-not-enthusias...
# feedr
Ruckus
03/23/2018, 3:21 PMs
stan0
03/23/2018, 3:53 PMSo basically java is too broken to be fixed at this point? Thatās what I got from the article.
r
Ruckus
03/23/2018, 3:56 PMThat's not how I read it (it's @elizarov's article, not mine), more that Java should keep its current strengths along with its legacy, and let Kotlin be the future of the JVM.
Ruckus
03/23/2018, 3:58 PMOr, Java has too much legacy, so adding new features feels more like a hack than a language improvement. Let the improvement happen somewhere that doesn't have the same legacy and backwards compatibility concerns.
n
nish
03/23/2018, 3:59 PMMy take on it is that Java language hasnāt evolved with the times.
It got stuck trying to backwards compatible everything. Kotlin is what Java 2.0 should have been
t
thomasnield
03/23/2018, 4:26 PM@elizarov You triggered that guy on Twitter š§. I honestly think some folks have been jaded by Scala (and maybe Groovy), so are quick to dismiss yet another JVM language.
r
rawtoast
03/23/2018, 4:30 PMInterestingly, there seems to be a small backlash against local type inference. Would be interesting to see how much it gets usedā¦
t
thomasnield
03/23/2018, 4:30 PMAt the last JUG I spoke at sharing Kotlin, I found it was effective to be sensitive to that fact. That helped get people's buy-in. It also helped to address questions about "well what's in it for JetBrains for them to be so vested in Kotlin? Why do they want us to use it?"
š 1
r
rawtoast
03/23/2018, 4:36 PMA note about the complaint towards Scalaās interoperability with Java. Typically, unlike Scala projects tend to avoid Java libraries and use Scala libraries where possible -- hence you donāt hear much about it.
Of course, there will be times where there isnāt a Scala library.
e
elizarov
03/23/2018, 6:47 PM@Ruckus Your summary is close to what I wanted to say, indeed
š 1
elizarov
03/23/2018, 6:51 PM@thomasnield It seems that Lukas has been bugged by Kotlin lovers for a while and became sensitive to it. I did not realize it. That was my mistake. We, as Kotlin community, should just leave Lukas and other people with similar views alone. There is a point where additional persuasion just does not work.
š 1
s
s1m0nw1
03/23/2018, 7:27 PM@elizarov I agree, this quickly becomes counterproductive. I liked your endurance during the discussion with Lukas though š
t
thomasnield
03/23/2018, 7:49 PM"Can't lead a horse to water..." and all that. However I always am interested in hearing why people resist change. Personally, I've experienced points where I'm too exhausted to learn something new and would rather stick with what I know. So I get people's resistance on that factor, although most will never admit it.
But one of the reasons I picked up Kotlin is because I was tired of coding, and liked the idea of having to do less of it.
e
elizarov
03/23/2018, 8:08 PMThere are people who just resist change, but there are also people who tried switching to other JVM langs before and had bad experience. We have a saying in Russia which I donāt know how to translate idiomatically, but literally it means āOne who was burned by milk now blows onto waterā.
š 3
š 1
c
cedric
03/24/2018, 4:24 AMThat article is much more a violent jab at Scala than at Java in my opinion š
cedric
03/24/2018, 4:25 AMWhatever criticism you can levy at Java, the language remains incredibly strong and has managed to scale up to more than twenty years of technical challenges. Only C and C++ have succeeded at that so far.
š 1
cedric
03/24/2018, 4:31 AMThe thing is, Java's strength lies now more in the existing libraries in bytecode form than Java-the-language itself, which is why Kotlin has a good shot at replacing it within the next decade
š 5
l
leonardootto
03/29/2018, 12:00 AMHow can i add this medium blog in my RSS feed? š§
e
elizarov
03/29/2018, 10:32 AM3 Views