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    stan0

    stan0

    4 years ago
    So basically java is too broken to be fixed at this point? That’s what I got from the article.
    r

    Ruckus

    4 years ago
    That's not how I read it (it's @elizarov's article, not mine), more that Java should keep its current strengths along with its legacy, and let Kotlin be the future of the JVM.
    Or, Java has too much legacy, so adding new features feels more like a hack than a language improvement. Let the improvement happen somewhere that doesn't have the same legacy and backwards compatibility concerns.
    n

    nish

    4 years ago
    My take on it is that Java language hasn’t evolved with the times. It got stuck trying to backwards compatible everything. Kotlin is what Java 2.0 should have been
    thomasnield

    thomasnield

    4 years ago
    @elizarov You triggered that guy on Twitter :troll:. I honestly think some folks have been jaded by Scala (and maybe Groovy), so are quick to dismiss yet another JVM language.
    rawtoast

    rawtoast

    4 years ago
    Interestingly, there seems to be a small backlash against local type inference. Would be interesting to see how much it gets used…
    thomasnield

    thomasnield

    4 years ago
    At the last JUG I spoke at sharing Kotlin, I found it was effective to be sensitive to that fact. That helped get people's buy-in. It also helped to address questions about "well what's in it for JetBrains for them to be so vested in Kotlin? Why do they want us to use it?"
    rawtoast

    rawtoast

    4 years ago
    A note about the complaint towards Scala’s interoperability with Java. Typically, unlike Scala projects tend to avoid Java libraries and use Scala libraries where possible -- hence you don’t hear much about it. Of course, there will be times where there isn’t a Scala library.
    elizarov

    elizarov

    4 years ago
    @Ruckus Your summary is close to what I wanted to say, indeed
    @thomasnield It seems that Lukas has been bugged by Kotlin lovers for a while and became sensitive to it. I did not realize it. That was my mistake. We, as Kotlin community, should just leave Lukas and other people with similar views alone. There is a point where additional persuasion just does not work.
    s1m0nw1

    s1m0nw1

    4 years ago
    @elizarov I agree, this quickly becomes counterproductive. I liked your endurance during the discussion with Lukas though 😜
    thomasnield

    thomasnield

    4 years ago
    "Can't lead a horse to water..." and all that. However I always am interested in hearing why people resist change. Personally, I've experienced points where I'm too exhausted to learn something new and would rather stick with what I know. So I get people's resistance on that factor, although most will never admit it. But one of the reasons I picked up Kotlin is because I was tired of coding, and liked the idea of having to do less of it.
    elizarov

    elizarov

    4 years ago
    There are people who just resist change, but there are also people who tried switching to other JVM langs before and had bad experience. We have a saying in Russia which I don’t know how to translate idiomatically, but literally it means “One who was burned by milk now blows onto water”.
    c

    cedric

    4 years ago
    That article is much more a violent jab at Scala than at Java in my opinion 🙂
    Whatever criticism you can levy at Java, the language remains incredibly strong and has managed to scale up to more than twenty years of technical challenges. Only C and C++ have succeeded at that so far.
    The thing is, Java's strength lies now more in the existing libraries in bytecode form than Java-the-language itself, which is why Kotlin has a good shot at replacing it within the next decade
    leonardootto

    leonardootto

    4 years ago
    How can i add this medium blog in my RSS feed? 🧐