:wave: Hey, I’m seeing some overlap between `Mutab...

# compose

[frankelot]

👋 Hey, I’m seeing some overlap between MutableState<T> and MutableStateFlow<T> , when should I use each?

[frankelot]

.collectAsState()

seems like I can use either one and just use ^^ 🤔 but I’m sure each has their own intender purposes

[Rafs]

MutableState<T> only exists in compose world but MutableStateFlow<T> can be used in any Kotlin code. You will need to call collectAsState on a MutableStateFlow to use it in compose.

[gildor]

There is overlap, but each has own use caase, MutableState is just a compose-ready wrapper for data, it’s not a part of kotlinx.coroutines

[frankelot]

Thanks! so assuming I’m already using coroutines in my project, would it be OK to just always use MutableStateFlow and .collectAsState()

[frankelot]

for consistency’ sake

[gildor]

yep

[gildor]

MutableState can be useful as internal state of composable in some cases, but approach with always propagating events from Flow passed as composable argument and onsume it with collectAsState is better

[frankelot]

good to hear, thank you! I’ll stick to that approach…

[frankelot]

I need to remember to always call

collectAsState()

cause it’s easy to just call .value .. code will compile but you won’t get updates when the underlying data changes

[gildor]

right

[gildor]

you anyway should never use .value in any reactive code

[frankelot]

what do you mean? you ultimately always call .value

[frankelot]

@Composable
fun MyText(foo : MutableStateFlow<String>) {
    Text(text = foo.collectAsState().value)
}

[frankelot]

@Composable
fun MyText(foo : MutableState<String>) {
    Text(text = foo.value)
}

[frankelot]

regardless of which one you use

[gildor]

well, for MutableState yes, but you shouldn’t do this for for StateFlow

[Albert Chang]

I would say if you don't have need to support other UI frameworks, using compose MutableState is a better choice. More info here.

[gildor]

I would never use MutableState outside of compose code and rather keep my view model completely agnostic and properly testable rather than switchingto MutabelState

[gildor]

things consumed by your UI

I think this is my biggest issue, I would like to keep my VM agnostic to UI and more flexible

[frankelot]

Thanks for the link, looks like i’m not the only one stick with this dilema

[frankelot]

Agree with Andrey though, I’d like to keep my VMs as “android-free” as possible

[frankelot]

but idk, I’m still conflicted between the approaches, both work OK, I might be overthinking this

[gildor]

even outsie of android, MutableState exteremely inflexible, you don’t want to expose mutability in your VM, you often want to reuse VM in another VM (like combine it with other data stream),nothing will will work with MutableState

[frankelot]

you don’t want to expose mutability in your VM

good point

[Albert Chang]

@gildor Have you heard of derivedStateOf?

[gildor]

Yes, I did, it’s not even closely as powerful as Flow in terms of stream flow management

[gildor]

Alo I would say that I more for Flow, not StateFlow (and especially MutabelStateFlow), I would try to avoid exposing state if I could

[Albert Chang]

Of course you can use flow if you need to but avoiding compose state at all sounds like mysophobia to me.

[Albert Chang]

Also by saying using MutableState I don't mean exposing it. This is absolutely possible (and preferable):

class MyViewModel {
    var someVar by mutableStateOf(0)
        private set
}

[gildor]

Isn’t this will not recompose?

[Albert Chang]

Just try it yourself.

[Albert Chang]

Also this post may help.

[gildor]

Honestly, I don’t see any advantage of this approach to convert my reactive, reusable view model into compose only state

[gildor]

Thanks, I read Zach’s articles

[Albert Chang]

So you are saying that compose states are not reactive and reusable right?

[Albert Chang]

And I didn't ask you convert your existing code. I'm talking about new code.

[gildor]

Especially for new code

[gildor]

Maybe you could you show you will test it in unit tests?

[frankelot]

Thanks for sharing that article

[Albert Chang]

Is there any difference between compose state and StateFlow in terms of unit test? Can you show an example?

[frankelot]

Android has traditionally been hard to unit test, hence frameworks like roboelectric, not sure this applies to compose

[Albert Chang]

Compose State is not Android-specific.

[frankelot]

right, good to know

[frankelot]

Well, I’m still confused on what to use…
I just wish google would stop coming up with overlapping things like this

[frankelot]

Happened with rxjava and livedata … IMO It introduces more confusion than anything else

[Albert Chang]

They all come with a reason. As for compose State, it is needed for the snapshot system, which is a core component of compose. Read the post I linked above (and other posts in that series) for more details. The third post should have answered this specific question.

[frankelot]

They all come with a reason.

IDK about compose, but for livedata the reason was “it’s easier for beginners to use RxJava”. Which is a pretty bad one IMO, since now beginners need to learn even more stuff (which more experienced developers don’t really mind)

[frankelot]

I’ll read the blockpost 🙂 hope I can clear my doubts on which one I should be using for my UseCase

[Albert Chang]

No. LiveData exists because it has better interoperability with Android lifecycles.

[frankelot]

…which can be done in Rx without stacking new concepts / classes / interoperability methods

[Colton Idle]

Adam has definitely convinced me to just use MutableState unless I'm consuming something downstream that is a flow or any other observable.

[Adam Powell]

There are many reasons to use [Mutable]StateFlow over snapshot [Mutable]State but, "it's compose-only" isn't one of them any more than, "it's kotlinx.coroutines-only" should be a reason not to use Flows. Snapshots are lower-level than the compose compiler plugin or any other compose-runtime machinery and can be used without any of it.

[Adam Powell]

Declining to use snapshots as a tool on the grounds that it's shipped in the compose-runtime artifact and compose-runtime includes other things is like declining to use suspendCancellableCoroutine because the same artifact includes Flow.

[Adam Powell]

Now that said... 😄

[Adam Powell]

Snapshots are about state and state alone, it's a MVCC system that happens to be observable at the whole-snapshot level, and when a snapshot is committed you can see which individual elements of the snapshot changed. This is the basis for the snapshotFlow {} API - you can get a cold flow from any block of code or expression that reads snapshot state and it will bridge the two, no @Composable or compose compiler plugin required.

[Adam Powell]

A great many usages of [Mutable]StateFlow out there would be better served by snapshots.

[Adam Powell]

That said, snapshots aren't a substitute for things like .stateIn(SharingStarted.WhileSubscribed)

[Adam Powell]

they also aren't a substitute for cases where timeliness of collectors being notified is important as opposed to an, "update soon, but eventually" model. For example, Compose's own Recomposer exposes current state information using StateFlow, not snapshot state. It's a better fit for a bunch of timing and isolation-related reasons.

[Adam Powell]

As for testability, personally I find snapshots to be as easy or easier to test than flows, including in isolation and in host-side tests.

[Adam Powell]

You're in control over when the global snapshot transaction is committed (Snapshot.sendApplyNotifications()), you can perform your own isolated transactions of several changes all at once that you can then examine and assert on atomically, regardless of any other concurrency setup that might be active (the other APIs on `Snapshot`'s companion object itself)

[Adam Powell]

when you're working with viewmodel-like objects (I hedge the description to make a distinction of the concept, as opposed to subclasses of android's ViewModel class) and consuming its state from compose using Flow.collectAsState, you're not using Flow instead of snapshot state, you're using Flow and snapshot state - collectAsState collects the flow into a snapshot state object for compose to react to. When you do this you lose the atomic transaction properties of snapshots.

[Adam Powell]

With snapshots if you change several snapshot state objects in a transaction, observers will see those changes together, atomically. When you collect several different flows into snapshot state objects, there is no transaction tying emits from those different flows into the same atomic change. They're all separate.

[Adam Powell]

If you have a ViewModel-like object with a handful of MutableStateFlows tracking state that get observed by UI code, it would almost certainly be a better fit for snapshot state instead.

[frankelot]

Thanks for the thorough reply Adam! If I’m being honest most of it went over my head. I still have a lot of learning to do around compose. But I’ve saved this to re-read it when I have a better grasp of the framework