Go is implemented in Go. It also has no external d...

# kotlin-native

[Kavan]

Go is implemented in Go. It also has no external dependencies, so to build Go only a Go compiler is required. Please make kotlinnative like this. @elizarov

[StefMa]

Okay. Do you want to pay for the development?

[kevin.cianfarini]

go also doesn't have ffi natively like k/n does to LLVM based languages because it doesn't make use of LLVM. to make K/n self hosting would lose a lot of functionality for us

[olonho]

Not sure what makes you believe that it makes sense, or why Roman should be implementing this idea :).

[Kavan]

I mean without jre stuff. Which requires to compile kotlin. And 😂 I only seen Roman very responsive in replying ppl on many platforms. lol I know he from coroutines group. I only watched few kotlinconf and know name of few ppl from K/N dev team. so, I tagged him. But know I know this guy Nikoly is a lead.

[Kavan]

@StefMa 😂 I just wrote my opinion. Nothing much.

[Kavan]

@kevin.cianfarini 🤔 I not thought about it.

[elizarov]

This is a cool sounding idea, but it does not have a lot of practical sense. The fact that Kotlin compiler (incl. Kotlin/Native) is written on top of JVM is exactly what makes Kotlin team so productive. That is how we can achieve so much in terms of language and tooling around it in so little time and with a modestly sized team. Kotlin compiler is a complex piece of software, not a microservice or a small app. We will not get any tangible benefits by getting getting rid of JVM for Kotlin compiler, but lose a lot in ecosystem we can tap into.

[elizarov]

On the other hand, Go is very simplistic language, yet it took enormous effort to make it from the richest company on earth employing brightest engineers on computer scientists in the world, writing everything virtually from scratch (they don’t even use libc). Even so, they could not provide a decent IDE for Go, so JetBrains is doing that instead. No surprises here, since with such an approach (writing everything in Go from scratch) it is infeasible to create an IDE such feature-rich as GoLand in any reasonable amount of time.

[Kavan]

I got it. I love that K/N team members touch in normal people. And here their opinions. Thanks @elizarov for explaining complexity and cons. about it.

[sksk]

@elizarov at what price? everything is slow as a result

[sksk]

short term gains, what about long term?

[kevin.cianfarini]

@sksk if you'd rather have the k/n compiler be fast than out of beta you're crazy. Patience.

[sksk]

@kevin.cianfarini i am patient, i follow KN project since before public announcement, nothing has improved, it is the opposite, takes way longer to compile release after release, that's why i'm concerned, there is this, and all the extra dependencies, makes getting started a huge task, not good for prototyping when you compare to other languages, even when they were just at their beginning

[sksk]

i was hopping KN to be fast/lean/simple, it's far from that

[sksk]

i understand they are trying to solve complex problems

[sksk]

and the product as a whole is really promising and game changer, i just wish they'd follow a more traditional route for the compiler and their infrastructure, something simpler, that doesn't requiere to warm something to be usable (gradle/jvm)

[elizarov]

@sksk K/N speed has nothing to do with JVM and its warmup.

[Kavan]

@sksk try 1.4.0 its way more fast in compile time. Really significant change.

[Kavan]

@sksk this looks promising. I'm glad they are now focusing on stability and performance.

https://youtu.be/0xKTM0A8gdI▾

[sksk]

@elizarov so why it is slow?

[sksk]

@Kavan how can i use 1.4.0? it is not released yet?

[sksk]

@Kavan for kotlin or kotlin native?

[sksk]

and thanks for the video

[elizarov]

Many different reasons. None of them related to JVM. Lots of ongoing work to speed it up.

[Kavan]

@sksk https://teamcity.jetbrains.com/buildConfiguration/Kotlin_KotlinPublic_CompilerAndPlugin_193/2746294?buildTab=artifacts