For now Kotlin/Native generates order of magnitude...
# kotlin-nativem
msink
08/11/2017, 11:28 PMFor now Kotlin/Native generates order of magnitude bigger and slower code compared to plain C equivalent.
n
napperley
08/11/2017, 11:40 PMHow much bigger (code, runtime and standard lib size) is Kotlin Native than C? Very important to have some basic Kotlin Native CLI profiling tools to measure performance in a number of different areas. Some of the areas covered by the profiling tools would include code size (as mentioned ☝️), memory (RAM) consumption separated by stack/heap and element type (classes, objects, variables, constants etc), CPU usage, number of times the Kotlin Native program blocks and how long each block occurs (concurrency).
m
msink
08/11/2017, 11:42 PMLast time I measured - it was approx 20x times bigger.
msink
08/11/2017, 11:44 PMNot counting stdlib, just code generated by compiler.
msink
08/17/2017, 12:40 PMOk, fresh measurement: https://github.com/msink/kotlin-blink
n
nish
08/17/2017, 1:59 PMDoes Konan do any dead code elimination?
n
napperley
08/17/2017, 10:00 PMDoes the upcoming Kotlin Native benchmark tools cover code size?
napperley
08/17/2017, 10:32 PMReal need to have a basic Kotlin Native sample which is suitable as a reference point for benchmarks (incl code size).
m
msink
08/17/2017, 11:09 PMThat "blink led" sample is quite real - it's like "hello world" for microcontrollers.
n
napperley
08/18/2017, 12:23 AMWhat is the target hw (is it targeting the Rpi)? Does the Kotlin code size include the Kotlin Native runtime and std lib?
m
msink
08/18/2017, 3:59 AMNo, I compiled it on windows host for windows target, x86-64. For another targets both sizes will change, so difference will be the same, more or less.
And no, I do not count stdlib, so difference really is even worse.
o
olonho
08/18/2017, 12:06 PMguess this kind of measurement is close to useless, when comparing text segment for trivial C and Kotlin programs, probably bigger size application having data structures and computations shall be compared
m
msink
08/18/2017, 12:11 PMwhat data structures? it counts only size of "main" (89 bytes) and "Konan_start" (1004 bytes).
o
olonho
08/18/2017, 12:59 PMusually maps, list, sets are considered data structures
m
msink
08/18/2017, 1:11 PMdid you see that repository? disassemled listings of relevant procedures do not include any of this maps, sets etc.
o
olonho
08/18/2017, 1:22 PMsure, but the point is, that to meaningfully compare size of programs, they have to do something valuable, for example manipulate with some data structures
m
msink
08/18/2017, 2:18 PMmicrocontrollers do not manipulate that structures, it manipulate io ports.
msink
08/18/2017, 2:27 PMQuestion was "is K/N usable in Ucs?" - answer is "no, for now".
In many other use cases answer is different, of course.
n
napperley
08/19/2017, 3:22 AMIsn't a language unusable without a standard lib (covers all basic data types, basic debugging via print..., basic collection functionality etc)?
napperley
08/19/2017, 3:48 AMThere are other languages like Python (via Micro Python) which have been successfully ported to uCs (). Kotlin SHOULD be portable to some ARM based uCs with the right changes under the hood in due time... 🕐 . Put it this way since JS can run on some uCs 😲 () 🏃 it is possible to write some embedded programs using a high level language, which will run on some uCs.
napperley
08/19/2017, 3:56 AMMy point about the need for Kotlin Native profiling tools still stands, and has been validated with some of the previous messages. Currently there is no easy/accurate way to determine resource usage of a Kotlin Native program (eg CPU usage, RAM used, code size). It is like navigating a room in the dark 🕶️ (inaccurate), which when translated to Kotlin Native development isn't a good way to determine if a Kotlin Native program is using too many resources or not (guessing doesn't work well).
2 Views