How many cross posts until it s just blatant spam <https kot kotlinlang #meta

How many cross-posts until it’s just blatant spam?...

Zac Sweers

01/01/2023, 5:45 AM

➕ 3

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 7:20 AM

sorry @Zac Sweers, i was worried about that, but i figured it's just one post for a launch and i won't be doing that again or often, or anything like that. it's a good question, because the project is honestly relevant to those channels, i was deliberate in picking channels that the project mentions or touches. the nature of polyglot development, and multiplatform development with Kotlin, is that it touches all of these topics genuinely. i actually owe you a thank-you -- one of the plugins in Elide is heavily inspired by, and uses a lot of, your work, personally. i will make sure that license disclosures reflect that and that you get the due credit for your amazing compiler plugin example projects, etc., which really helped me put this project together.

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 7:21 AM

in any case, my apologies if this felt spammy, i wasn't sure how many others in the Kotlin ecosystem were in this many channels. the intent is definitely not to turn people off with spam. happy new year, thank you for all of your hard work in the Kotlin world (seriously), and i hope you'll give the project a look 🙂

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 7:28 AM

just for the record, i posted to these channels: #server because it can be used to build servers #javascript, #react because the framework has integration with

esbuild

and

react

#bazel, #gradle, #build-tools because the framework exports build tools with plugins for these systems (no maven yet) #framework-elide because it is the framework's own channel #multiplatform, #web-mpp because it supports KMP and is web related as well #bayarea because i live there #awesome-kotlin, #random, #feed because they make sense for announcements of exciting new stuff #ktor, #micronaut because it has specific support for these servers i also tried to exercise restraint, for example: #compiler i did not post to because my compiler plugins aren't doing anything interesting or innovative. #arrow and #fluid-libraries i did not post to even though we are planning support for both. #hiring did not make sense because our positions are only open source for now. if this was flawed decision-making on my part, i apologize and will amend my behavior for future announcements, of course.

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 7:31 AM

(ah, license disclosures are all good, btw, and thank you again, both for your hard work and this candid feedback)

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 7:38 AM

as a final note, I do disagree with your characterization that this is "spam." Oxford defines the term as:

Copy code

noun.
  irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the internet to a large number of recipients.

verb.
  send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the internet.

while I agree that I may have distributed it too broadly, and will accept this feedback as constructive even though you aren't directly saying it is spam, I don't agree that it was irrelevant or sent indiscriminately. I hope that sharing my thinking behind it illuminates why we might understand it differently.

😐 1

eygraber

01/01/2023, 8:20 AM

I didn't really go to check Oxford's definition of spam while I went through each of my unread channels, only to find out it was your same message each time.

😄 5

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 8:23 AM

@eygraber understood, and I'm not disputing that it's a reasonable question to ask. I'm merely disputing that it was indiscriminate (it wasn't, I thought very hard about where to post), or that it was irrelevant (it wasn't, in every case, as far as I can tell).

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 8:24 AM

My apologies that you received notifications for each. Slack should really deduplicate them since I made sure to share the very same post.

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 8:27 AM

Something being considered "spam" is merely a matter of definitions. My message can still be annoying to people even if it doesn't meet the definition of "spam." I take this thread in #meta as feedback that I distributed it too broadly, even if it does not meet the definition of "spam." This is why I see it as necessary to apologize anyway while defending my thinking, and offering that my thinking can change. Obviously, Kotlin Multiplatform touches a lot of topics. Maybe it would be best to have a "rule of thumb" or some other clarifying framework about where to post, because my intent is clearly in good faith and the content is deeply relevant. Thanks for letting me know how it made you feel in any case. That's important to me and I appreciate it.

Ruckus

01/01/2023, 9:44 AM

@Sam Gammon You posted the definition and then only addressed the "irrelevant" part, while entirely skipping the "inappropriate" part. Whether something is considered appropriate is determined by the community. In this particular community (the Kotlin slack), cross posting is generally considered inappropriate, and thus spam. No harm done, just keep that in mind going forward. You may also want to consider cleaning up most of those duplicate posts as well.

Sam Gammon

01/01/2023, 9:58 AM

I didn't skip the "inappropriate" part, @Ruckus, I just reserve that category for things that are truly inappropriate to post about, like personal issues, or graphic violence, or other things that might not be considered socially appropriate. This is a post about a Kotlin library, written in Kotlin, and specifically designed for the use cases where it is posted. I just don't see how that's inappropriate or irrelevant. I also apologized and admitted that it was a question I asked myself before posting.

Whether something is considered appropriate is determined by the community

Whether something is relevant is determined by the community. The term "spam" has a definition.

In this particular community (the Kotlin slack), cross posting is generally considered inappropriate, and thus spam.

I mentioned in my response that guidance about this would be welcome. I'm not aware of any official guidance on this topic.

No harm done, just keep that in mind going forward. You may also want to consider cleaning up most of those duplicate posts as well.

If there was no harm done, I don't see any need to clean anything up. Thank you for letting me know your thoughts.

louiscad

01/03/2023, 6:04 PM

Cross posting is discouraged right in the Code of Conduct of this Slack, for reasons you now know. Just pick the most relevant channel and remove the other ones. Us moderators called out folks for cross posting across just 2-3 channels FYI @Sam Gammon.

Sam Gammon

01/03/2023, 11:51 PM

Understood, thank you for letting me know, @louiscad.

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