i know this is the wrong slack for this, but whate...

# announcements

[Brian Dilley]

i know this is the wrong slack for this, but whatever happened to java modules? i feel like nobody uses them or cares about them.

[MiSikora]

I know this is not the answer you’re looking for, but why post knowingly on the wrong slack?

[Colton Idle]

@Brian Dilley just post in #C09222272 you might get an answer 😂

[Brian Dilley]

@MiSikora Because I wanted to get underneath the skin of people like you

[Fleshgrinder]

I don't get all the hate for ecosystem talk. We're a community and people should be allowed to discuss anything they want. Just had a similar experience in #C0B8ZTWE4 and left.

Anyways, at least I didn't bother so far looking into them. All I know is that features of them make writing Kotlin a pain. Like Gradle who defined there entire API as nonnull which isn't true but due to shortcomings of javax annotations there's no way to fix it.

[Brian Dilley]

thanks for the thoughtful response @Fleshgrinder - that’s all i was looking for, trying to engage in conversation 🙂

[hhariri]

@Fleshgrinder It’s not hate for the community. This Slack serves the purpose of trying to accommodate the Kotlin community, and channels are about trying to keep focus on the topics at hand. For topics like this, there’s a random channel as others have pointed out.

[hhariri]

@Brian Dilley That kind of response isn’t very helpful. Please try and be a bit more respectful.

[Fleshgrinder]

I totally get that and I'm not saying that people should discuss what kind of food is best for their new kitten, or like Rust always sees people asking about Rust. But asking a general IntelliJ Spring question in #C0B8ZTWE4 is not off topic if I am working solely with Kotlin there. The same goes for the question asked here, Java modules have an effect on my Kotlin/JVM project. The problem really is with the toxicity this kind of community behavior leads to. I'm thinking of that situation where a long term Groovy contributor saw himself forced to stop contributing to Groovy because he received so much hate from the community because he was also working on Kotlin things. What binds the people here is that they use Kotlin and if they bothered to join this Slack then they probably really like Kotlin. However, Kotlin is deeply entangled with other things (JVM, JS, ...) and it is just natural that these people will also turn to their beloved Kotlin community if they have general questions, because that's where they feel that they belong to. Every time the rest of the community reacts harsh to this, especially if this behavior is also encouraged by JB, those people turn away and the environment becomes toxic and more toxic. Just look at what happened here. 😞

[Oliver.O]

Had the OP pointed out at least some relationship to Kotlin, this channel might have been OK. Otherwise I consider it disrespectful to force-feed thoughts to people who have (by choosing this channel) declared a specific and incompatible interest.

[hhariri]

@Fleshgrinder I don’t think it’s fair to compare what happened to a Groovy committer to this. Both myself and JetBrains are committed to making this community welcoming and open. I fully understand that they may ask questions that are somehow related to Kotlin, even if it’s about the JVM ecosystem, but as I mentioned, there is actually a channel for that, which is #C09222272 However, the response saying that they want to get under someone’s skin is not appropriate, nor does it help matters.

[Fleshgrinder]

Absolutely, that's what I was referring to with my last sentence and the emoji. But one leads to the other.