Honestly the channels filled with nothing but peop...

# hiring

[louiscad]

Honestly the channels filled with nothing but people trying to enforce the channel rules - I get that they don't want it flooded with recruiter spam but it's a real shame that developers can't attempt to reach out to other developers in their area about potential positions.
Thread in Slack Conversation

[kioba]

All we ask is be upfront with your offer, and be honest. The rules came in because developers got bored of shady deals in DMs.

[nfrankel]

the main issue is that it’s not developers trying to reach out other developers
it’s recruiters (yes) or developers being used as proxies trying to do the exact same stuff as in other channels (linkedin, etc.)
now, if you’re actively searching:
you can contact people who already posted offers and let them know you’re open

[louiscad]

What you say @kioba should appear in this channel desc/topic IMHO. Rules are better followed when the rationale behind is clear to all.

[ghedeon]

What if I'm a developer and actually want to reach out to other developers, let say for referrals. Should we allow questions like this? I mean, it's a job channel after all, not strictly #job-postings-feed.

[rkeazor]

I'm not a recruiter lol. @nfrankel I think you are wrong about this. This is a Kotlin Slack Workspace that people apply and get accepted to. I'm pretty sure this fear of proxies and recurriters is a extreme one. Most people here at the very least are Kotlin Enthusiasts....

[rkeazor]

Also another thing that's abit annoying is not being able to post a job opening here just because the salary range isnt given. You all have to take into consideration that alot of companies negotiate salary as part of the hiring process. I am not sure how this is in Europe, but this is a very common practice in the US. You can look at Glassdoor ads and see that. My main suggestion for this channel is, things should be kept abit more open, because you never know what opportunity will help someone

[ghedeon]

@rkeazor nah.. positions have budgets. No matter how you negotiate — you're in the ballpark range of that budget. Thus, knowing the range upfront can save time and not such a tall ask, really. But I still believe that asking something job/company related should be permitted here, even if it's not a job posting itself.

[rkeazor]

@ghedeon I'm not sure what you mean , because you can literally search job postings and see for yourself. And it's not because the company is trying lowball you or anything... I have seen companies who didnt disclose the salary in a ad, but end up paying out way more than companies that actually did

[rkeazor]

I have even job postings at Google that dont include a salary range

[cedric]

What makes this rule even more silly is that it's easy to circumvent, just publish a wide range for the salary.

[rkeazor]

from 10US TO 10,0000US😂

[dmulligan]

Looking to hire someone to cut a lawn, 3 years experience required, rates up to €9 per hour, equal opportunity employer. Perks include on site workout, parking, huge growth potential, no thymes wasters.

[neworldlt]

@rkeazor, I believe there are some companies who could offer a bigger salary than ones that actually post range. However, the vast majority of companies are looking for cheap labor. This rule filter out them.

[cedric]

@neworldlt How does that rule filter them out? All they will do is post a wide salary range from X-Y while in the end, they really only mean to offer X.

[rkeazor]

@neworldlt that is a lie. There are top companies that dont post the salaries in there Ads.And plus if you guys dont like ads without salary levels, than just ignore them. Why set legislation for everyone?

[ghedeon]

@rkeazor it's a false premise that if companies are doing that — it must be good. The company paid for that Ad, obviously the ad will be like they want it to be 🙂. Same with another childish argument: "you don't see LinkedIn forcing salary ranges". LI is literally being paid by companies, no one jumps from the winning horse. But they don't pay kotlinlang so it doesn't have to be their rules here.

[neworldlt]

If the company post salary range you know what to expect and do not waste time if your expectations are too high. And I not speaking about top companies. For example, I was in the hiring process in many companies. They promised the best salary depends on skill. After they heard my expectation, they suddenly answer they have an upper limit and that is even lower than current salary.

[rkeazor]

@ghedeon I have absolutely no idea what your talking about😅 … All I am saying is just because companies don’t post the salary ranges in there Ads doesn’t making it a bad Ad. Thus people shouldn’t have this rules and regulations against it. If you personally don’t like Ads that don’t have expected salary ranges, just ignore it. Its that easy… For instance I have worked as a dev for years, and my best jobs have always been with companies that didn’t specify the salary range on the Ad… But I am not going to sit here and say all companies that all companies that specify a salary range are no good. so why should it be the other way around? Dogma is no good

[cedric]

I think we should remove this rule for a bit and see what the channel becomes. It's so dead right now that it can't get much worse

[dalexander]

I’m also in support of removing the rule for a while. We can always reconsider if the signal/noise ratio becomes poor.

[rkeazor]

i also agree

[patrykpoborca]

Agreed. Honestly this rule also kills people like me who might have ocassional contract gigs available but depends on client and the perspective android developer since work changes based upon experience for example and my company's needs change month to month